Third question from Dave in Vancouver. All three of these questions were included in one email, I just thought it would be easier to put them in three different posts as they were in regards to three different topic areas that are very important to any tile/stone job.
Two thumbs up to Dave for such excelent questions.
Comment re: starting at the center of the room:
I favor a "line of sight" and start at the room entrance with a centered double line of tiles. I tie into the hallway or next room with a different pattern or mosaic so that there is a visual break between the two floors.
I agree. If I have a long open space and the door's offset I'll check to see if centering the layout on the door will put a long line of small cuts along the visible wall though. If the cuts are going to be under a toe kick, or if the walls step out or step back at various locations in the room, then I don't worry about what cuts will be along the walls. Using different types/patterns in different areas also helps to keep the floor surfaces visually interesting.
That's where you have an advantage if you're working on your own project, you get to pick. Working for homeowners and designers though, all I get to do is deal with what ever they choose for me to install, then step back when I'm done and enjoy the view....
Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Sealers and Grout
This one is from Dave in Vancouver also.
Any product that can "paint" over sealed grout? (or how to "un-seal")
I'm not sure if you're wanting to change the grout color or if you'd like to reseal, so I'll give you both answers.
If you're wanting to paint a stain over sealed grout, I wouldn't recomend that. There are some products that you can use to change the grout color. I've used a product in the past to put a color coat over existing grout. The product was a water based epoxy paint and worked well. The first thing you want to do is to strip the sealer off the surface of the grout. There are many stippers out there for this purpose. Custom Building Products, Miracle Products, Stone Tech and other companies all make strippers, and they are pretty reasonably priced, with easy to follow directions. One advantage of the strippers is that they commonly have surficants in them that will clean the grout and tile as well as removing any existing sealer from the surface. You just want to check the bottle and make sure that it says it will strip the sealer off the surface. Also, make sure that you use something approved for use on tile/stone and that doesn't contain any acids such as sulfamic, muriatic, etc..
One problem with putting anything over the top of sealed grout is that the purpose of the sealer - that is to fill pores in the surface and below - will prevent you from getting a good bond between the substance you're painting on the grout and the grout itself.
If you're going to reseal or put a colorant on the grout, you'll want to let the grout dry out for a day or so, then apply the colorant or sealer per instructions on the bottle.
The sealers I recomend for grout are Miracle Products 511 Impregnator, any of Stone Tech's penetrating sealers, and any of Custom's penetrating sealers. Note, if you're sealing or resealing grout or stone, be sure to use a penetrating sealer not an enhancer unless you want to deepen the color of the grout/stone. Enhancers essentially make the stone/grout look like it does when wet, color wise, and will probably add a sheen to the surface. Enhancers won't do anything on glazed tile except leave a residue that'll give you fits if you let it dry on the surface. Penetrating sealers will leave a residue on the surface as well but as long as you wipe the surface of a ceramic or stone tile with a shiny finish till it's dry, you won't have a problem with streaking or spotting.
Sealers and strippers can be bought at Oregon Tile and Marble and the big box stores. Stone Tech can be purchased at Intrepid.
Any product that can "paint" over sealed grout? (or how to "un-seal")
I'm not sure if you're wanting to change the grout color or if you'd like to reseal, so I'll give you both answers.
If you're wanting to paint a stain over sealed grout, I wouldn't recomend that. There are some products that you can use to change the grout color. I've used a product in the past to put a color coat over existing grout. The product was a water based epoxy paint and worked well. The first thing you want to do is to strip the sealer off the surface of the grout. There are many stippers out there for this purpose. Custom Building Products, Miracle Products, Stone Tech and other companies all make strippers, and they are pretty reasonably priced, with easy to follow directions. One advantage of the strippers is that they commonly have surficants in them that will clean the grout and tile as well as removing any existing sealer from the surface. You just want to check the bottle and make sure that it says it will strip the sealer off the surface. Also, make sure that you use something approved for use on tile/stone and that doesn't contain any acids such as sulfamic, muriatic, etc..
One problem with putting anything over the top of sealed grout is that the purpose of the sealer - that is to fill pores in the surface and below - will prevent you from getting a good bond between the substance you're painting on the grout and the grout itself.
If you're going to reseal or put a colorant on the grout, you'll want to let the grout dry out for a day or so, then apply the colorant or sealer per instructions on the bottle.
The sealers I recomend for grout are Miracle Products 511 Impregnator, any of Stone Tech's penetrating sealers, and any of Custom's penetrating sealers. Note, if you're sealing or resealing grout or stone, be sure to use a penetrating sealer not an enhancer unless you want to deepen the color of the grout/stone. Enhancers essentially make the stone/grout look like it does when wet, color wise, and will probably add a sheen to the surface. Enhancers won't do anything on glazed tile except leave a residue that'll give you fits if you let it dry on the surface. Penetrating sealers will leave a residue on the surface as well but as long as you wipe the surface of a ceramic or stone tile with a shiny finish till it's dry, you won't have a problem with streaking or spotting.
Sealers and strippers can be bought at Oregon Tile and Marble and the big box stores. Stone Tech can be purchased at Intrepid.
Choosing a tile saw
This question comes from Dave in Vancouver regarding choosing a tile saw.
Recommendation for a tile saw (doing about 600 sq ft). Have bought several Home Depot types $80-100 that couldn’t finish the job.
Target, MK, and Felker all make excelent saws but can be a bit pricey unless you're intending to do a lot of tile. I have a Felker Tile Master and those run around $900-$1100 new depending on what bells and wistles you get with them. You may be able to get a decent saw new for as low as $600 if you find one on sale at the regular tile suppliers like Oregon Tile and Marble, or Intrepid. What ever saw you get, you need, of course, to take into consideration what size of tile you will be working with. If you only plan to use smaller tiles up to 8 X 8 you could go with a small saw. MK makes one that actually uses a special angle grinder to run a 5-6 inch blade. The thing screams like a banshee, but it's a nice little saw, they're pretty sturdy little work horses, and I've seen them used on fairly good sized house jobs. I've even worked with a fellow who was cutting 16 X 16 travertine tiles on the thing, although that was pushing it a bit. Any of the standard size saws will cut up to 20 X 20 tiles even on the diagonal, although to split tiles that size on the diagonal you'd have to cut through half way then flip the tile around and cut the rest of the way. I believe that Dewalt makes a large saw with a deeper throat that will take a big tile like that without having to double cut, but I haven't used that one, so I can't say how good of a saw it is, although it's probably pretty good.
Sometimes you can find a good used saw, you could check Craig's List, or look in the classifieds of the major newspapers around town. If you're only going to do around 600 sq. ft., you might call Star Rentals or one of the other equipment rental companies to see if they have any to rent. I think Home Depot might rent wet saws too.
A note about used saws -
Always buy from a reputable dealer. Pawn shops sometimes have construction equipment, and the good ones will check to see if they're stolen. I had a brand new $1,200.00 Felker stolen off my truck - second day it was on the job. I think I had only cut about 20 feet of tile since I got it. That hurt. The saw probably went straight to a pawn shop or someone that had said they were looking for a used tile saw. If someone is selling their saw, ask them why they are getting rid of it. It may be someone going out of business, which is fine, but it may be stolen, or it may not work.
Try it before you buy it. Make sure it has a blade on it and check to make sure that the blade doesn't wobble - a little is acceptable, very much is no good though, this could be a sign of a bent arbor. Run a cut or two through it and use something like a porcelain, marble or granite tile. If you've been doing tile, you should have a few scrap pieces you could bring. If you use a piece of standard grade tile, like the 4 1/4 X 4 1/4 or 6 X 6 Dal tile that Home Depot sells, it won't be much of a test of the saw. If the person selling the saw won't let you try it, I wouldn't buy it. If they say that the pump is broken, that could be true, but you could use a water bottle or hose to get water to the blade. Water pumps are inexpensive to replace, motors and other parts are not. You don't need to cut 10 feet, just enough to see that the arbor is running true and the motor is in good shape and the belt is tight, etc. If you run a few cuts and the motor sounds good and the saw doesn't bog down and the blade cuts straight and true, even if the blade has a little wobble when it isn't cutting a tile, it may be that the blade is a bit warped. I have a blade that's like that and it still cuts fine. If the motor does bog down a bit, check the belt to see if it's nice and tight. I have to tighten the belt on my saw occasionally.
Recommendation for a tile saw (doing about 600 sq ft). Have bought several Home Depot types $80-100 that couldn’t finish the job.
Target, MK, and Felker all make excelent saws but can be a bit pricey unless you're intending to do a lot of tile. I have a Felker Tile Master and those run around $900-$1100 new depending on what bells and wistles you get with them. You may be able to get a decent saw new for as low as $600 if you find one on sale at the regular tile suppliers like Oregon Tile and Marble, or Intrepid. What ever saw you get, you need, of course, to take into consideration what size of tile you will be working with. If you only plan to use smaller tiles up to 8 X 8 you could go with a small saw. MK makes one that actually uses a special angle grinder to run a 5-6 inch blade. The thing screams like a banshee, but it's a nice little saw, they're pretty sturdy little work horses, and I've seen them used on fairly good sized house jobs. I've even worked with a fellow who was cutting 16 X 16 travertine tiles on the thing, although that was pushing it a bit. Any of the standard size saws will cut up to 20 X 20 tiles even on the diagonal, although to split tiles that size on the diagonal you'd have to cut through half way then flip the tile around and cut the rest of the way. I believe that Dewalt makes a large saw with a deeper throat that will take a big tile like that without having to double cut, but I haven't used that one, so I can't say how good of a saw it is, although it's probably pretty good.
Sometimes you can find a good used saw, you could check Craig's List, or look in the classifieds of the major newspapers around town. If you're only going to do around 600 sq. ft., you might call Star Rentals or one of the other equipment rental companies to see if they have any to rent. I think Home Depot might rent wet saws too.
A note about used saws -
Always buy from a reputable dealer. Pawn shops sometimes have construction equipment, and the good ones will check to see if they're stolen. I had a brand new $1,200.00 Felker stolen off my truck - second day it was on the job. I think I had only cut about 20 feet of tile since I got it. That hurt. The saw probably went straight to a pawn shop or someone that had said they were looking for a used tile saw. If someone is selling their saw, ask them why they are getting rid of it. It may be someone going out of business, which is fine, but it may be stolen, or it may not work.
Try it before you buy it. Make sure it has a blade on it and check to make sure that the blade doesn't wobble - a little is acceptable, very much is no good though, this could be a sign of a bent arbor. Run a cut or two through it and use something like a porcelain, marble or granite tile. If you've been doing tile, you should have a few scrap pieces you could bring. If you use a piece of standard grade tile, like the 4 1/4 X 4 1/4 or 6 X 6 Dal tile that Home Depot sells, it won't be much of a test of the saw. If the person selling the saw won't let you try it, I wouldn't buy it. If they say that the pump is broken, that could be true, but you could use a water bottle or hose to get water to the blade. Water pumps are inexpensive to replace, motors and other parts are not. You don't need to cut 10 feet, just enough to see that the arbor is running true and the motor is in good shape and the belt is tight, etc. If you run a few cuts and the motor sounds good and the saw doesn't bog down and the blade cuts straight and true, even if the blade has a little wobble when it isn't cutting a tile, it may be that the blade is a bit warped. I have a blade that's like that and it still cuts fine. If the motor does bog down a bit, check the belt to see if it's nice and tight. I have to tighten the belt on my saw occasionally.
Look, a tile blog!
I've been answering questions sent to me by people doing tile on their own and having a fine time indeed. I've been getting such good questions from people that I decided to start a blog where people can comment on questions and answers.
My phylosophy has always been that the more people you can get input from, the more you can learn. Everyone has different experience and different points of view and no one knows it all. I've been doing this since 1984 and I don't know it all. I try to learn something new every day and with everyone's help we can all learn from each other.
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
My phylosophy has always been that the more people you can get input from, the more you can learn. Everyone has different experience and different points of view and no one knows it all. I've been doing this since 1984 and I don't know it all. I try to learn something new every day and with everyone's help we can all learn from each other.
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
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