The first test that I did was on a couple of old tiles from the airport. The facility I'm working on right now is the Portland International Airport and the project is an extensive remodel of 17 restrooms on various concourses and in the public areas. The tiles that need to be replaced are no longer being made and so far no existing tiles are available in colors that match or even come reasonably close to the existing.
I could just buy some bisque from either Dal Tile or American Olean, formulate a glaze that is the right color with a matte finish, and then have a local tile manufacturer fire the tiles for me, but the lead time would be too long. I have to be able to produce the replacement tiles pretty much on demand with a turn around of 3-4 days. The tiles have to be able to withstand commercial cleaning, and be somewhat resistant to graffiti, although most of the tiles I'm replacing are down at the floor (bottom course) and at the ceiling (top course), so fortunately that's not quite so important as an accurate color match.
There are two products that I am currently testing for this project. Vitrea 160 and Porcelaine 150, both made by Pebeo. Both are thermo hardening water based paints. Vitrea 160 is hardened at 325 degrees for 40 minutes while Porcelaine 150 is hardened at 300 degrees for 35 minutes. The two products are not compatible with each other and neither seems to play well with water. Pebeo makes mediums and thinners for use with each product and Vitrea 160 also has mediums and treatments that produce frosted and crackle finishes. Porcelaine 150 can be mixed with a special medium to produce a matte finish. While Vitrea 160 is made for use on glass, I also see that it has good bonding properties with glazed ceramics. So far the two tests I've conducted used starndard grade wall tile from Dal Tile.
Status as of 6-6-2008
Test - 1
Substrate - Dal Tile standard grade wall tile, matte glaze. One section was left as is, the other was sanded with #80 sand paper at high speed with a standard polisher used in the stone fabrication industry. Both surfaces were cleaned with water and wiped dry.
Application - Undiluted Porcelaine 150 was applied with a metal rod to a uniform thickness and allowed to dry indoors at 70 degrees F. for 24 hours, then baked in an oven at 300 degrees for 35 mintues.
Observations -
~ Product was low odor and easy to work with. It flowed eavenly over the surface of the tile and appeared to be moderately self leveling. Colors do not appear to change much if at all between application, drying and baking. Color is rich and opaque where heavier application but transparent to translucent where thinner application was allowed in test sample.
~ Product cleaned off of rod, which was smooth, easily with a paper towel.
After drying but before baking, product was soft enough to take an impression from both cloth and finger print but these impressions dissapeared during baking. Texturing by stamping will probably not be possible, however I will be doing some other texturing tests using other techniques.
~ After baking the product was extremely hard and I am currently in the process of challenging both the bond and the product's surface resistance to chemical and mechanical attack.
Challenges -
Abbrasives
~ Scrub wet and dry with plastic fibre pad - Little or no scratching at 5-10 lbs. pressure.
~ Razor blade - A small section of the material was shaved off of the surface of the tile on both the abbraided and factory surfaces. This was fairly difficult and would have been even more difficult if the entire surface of the substrate had been coated. Upon exposure the substrate surface showed staining by the product indicating possible penetration of the product into the surface of the substrate's original glaze.
2. Chemical
~ Glass Plus (brand) - No change in surface finish or integrity of material or bond after 30 minutes continuous exposure.
~ Planned are standard cleaning chemicals as well as alcohol, xylene, acetone, laquer thinner, Goof Off (brand), citrus based cleaners etc..
Test - 2
Substrate - Dal Tile standard grade wall tile, matte glaze. One section was left as is, the other was sanded with #80 sand paper at high speed with a standard polisher used in the stone fabrication industry. Both surfaces were cleaned with water and wiped dry.
Application - Undiluted Vitrea 160 was applied with a metal rod to a uniform thickness and allowed to dry indoors at 70 degrees F. for 24 hours, then baked in an oven at 325 degrees for 40 mintues.
Observations -
~ Product was low odor and easy to work with. It flowed eavenly over the surface of the tile and appeared to be moderately self leveling. Colors do not appear to change much if at all between application, drying and baking. Color is rich and opaque where heavier application but transparent to translucent where thinner application was allowed in test sample.
~ Product cleaned off of rod, which was smooth, easily with a paper towel.
After drying but before baking, product was soft enough to take an impression but these impressions dissapeared during baking. Texturing by stamping will probably not be possible, however I will be doing some other texturing tests using other techniques with this product as well as the Porcelaine 150 product.
~ Before baking the surface was challenged by imprinting by stamping with a piece of #80 silicon carbide sand paper. Bits of grit and small amounts of dust undoubtably became embeded in the surface of the product during this process. After baking an unexpected texture similar to orange peel in laquers was observed. I'm unsure if this was due to the surface contamination from the stamping or if there was some moisture in the buscuit of the tile that may have come up through the abraided section of the tile's original glaze that caused this. Further tests will have to be conducted to resolve this issue. I don't believe that the texture was caused by a reaction to the tile's original glaze as the texture is only present over 30%-40% of the test area. The rest of the test surface is smooth and as expected.
~ After baking the product was extremely hard and I am currently in the process of challenging both the bond and the product's surface resistance to chemical and mechanical attack.
Challenges -
Abbrasives
~ Scrub wet and dry with plastic fibre pad - Little or no scratching at 5-10 lbs. pressure.
~ Razor blade - A small section of the material was shaved off of the surface of the tile on both the abraided and factory surfaces. This was fairly difficult and would have been even more difficult if the entire surface of the substrate had been coated. Upon exposure the substrate surface showed staining by the product indicating possible penetration of the product into the surface of the substrate's original glaze.
2. Chemical - No challenges yet but planned are standard cleaning chemicals as well as alcohol, xylene, acetone, laquer thinner, Goof Off (brand), citrus based cleaners etc..
I'll post updates here as I do them.
Joanne Rigutto
SPECIAL NOTE! - This post is part of a larger discussion on doing mural work on tile both on new tile and on existing installed tile. To read more see the thread over at Wet Canvas! - HERE
Saturday, June 7, 2008
Tuesday, May 6, 2008
The Tile Sleuth
Lots of times, when you do repair work, it's not just about installing the tile, it's about finding the tile to install in the first place. That's why a lot of tile installers don't like to do repair work. Well, that and the fact that you can spend a lot of time doing piddling little things, and not have a lot to show for it at the end of the day. And then there's the detail work, trying to match old grout with a new grout, etc. But I see all of that as a challenge. Some people like to hunt, tracking that big game down, I like detective work and research, which repair jobs can have in spades. I supposed in the end, it all comes down to the hunt, the thrill of the chase, and a successful end to the project.
This particular bit of detective ala tile setter work is currently going on out at the Portland International Airport. In many of the toilet rooms out there, there is quite a bit of repair and renovation work going on. If you've been to the airport with in the past few months you'll have noticed that. In addition to putting in new counter tops and floors in many of the rooms, they are also replacing the partitions, doing ceiling work, etc. and moving some fixtures like the paper towel dispensers to new locations. A couple of new locations for the paper towel dispensers didn't work out, and I was left with a couple of new holes in the wall to repair. In a couple of other bathrooms I'd worked on, we were able to get some left over tile from the maintenance department and then there were some areas that had a full row of tile up above the ceiling. Apparently the walls had been installed before the ceiling and we were able to salvage those to do repairs to the exposed walls. Unfortunately, that is not to be the case in the three rooms where I will be doing my next repair gig, so that necessitates my locating tile to replace the ones that have come off the wall or that have been damaged during demolition, partition moves, etc.
The first order of business is to determine the type, and manufacturer of the tile, which through doing the other toilet rooms I had done. Fortunately, the tile in the rooms needing repair is the same manufatrure as the last ones needing repair so I'm able to use the information gained in the other toilet rooms on these next rooms. Being as how there are more tiles needing to be replaced than I have from the existing walls, I need to find more. A simple enough task at first blush. Maintenance thought that more tile could be ordered, which, unfortunately, given that the manufacturer is apparently not around any more, is not possible.
Now comes the challenge - I need more tile than is available at the airport, and no way to replace it. So, what to do? Well, there are some options. I can try to locate some of the discontinued tile, which will probably not be possible although I'm going to try. The other option, and this one is much more likely to be successful, is to try to find tile that is similar enough that I can use it and not have the walls look too funky. Finding a tile that is the same size and thickness shouldn't be too difficult to find, the existing is a standard grade wall tile and the sizes/thickness on those is pretty much standard from make to make. The tile I need to replace is a matte finish, and just about everyone makes those. It's a creamy pinkish buffy color, and most manufacturers produce several varieties of that color range. But we'll have to see what I can find.
Like my dad always used to say - 'Not just a job, but an adventure' and he was saying that way before I ever saw it on an Airforce commercial.
Stay tuned .....
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
This particular bit of detective ala tile setter work is currently going on out at the Portland International Airport. In many of the toilet rooms out there, there is quite a bit of repair and renovation work going on. If you've been to the airport with in the past few months you'll have noticed that. In addition to putting in new counter tops and floors in many of the rooms, they are also replacing the partitions, doing ceiling work, etc. and moving some fixtures like the paper towel dispensers to new locations. A couple of new locations for the paper towel dispensers didn't work out, and I was left with a couple of new holes in the wall to repair. In a couple of other bathrooms I'd worked on, we were able to get some left over tile from the maintenance department and then there were some areas that had a full row of tile up above the ceiling. Apparently the walls had been installed before the ceiling and we were able to salvage those to do repairs to the exposed walls. Unfortunately, that is not to be the case in the three rooms where I will be doing my next repair gig, so that necessitates my locating tile to replace the ones that have come off the wall or that have been damaged during demolition, partition moves, etc.
The first order of business is to determine the type, and manufacturer of the tile, which through doing the other toilet rooms I had done. Fortunately, the tile in the rooms needing repair is the same manufatrure as the last ones needing repair so I'm able to use the information gained in the other toilet rooms on these next rooms. Being as how there are more tiles needing to be replaced than I have from the existing walls, I need to find more. A simple enough task at first blush. Maintenance thought that more tile could be ordered, which, unfortunately, given that the manufacturer is apparently not around any more, is not possible.
Now comes the challenge - I need more tile than is available at the airport, and no way to replace it. So, what to do? Well, there are some options. I can try to locate some of the discontinued tile, which will probably not be possible although I'm going to try. The other option, and this one is much more likely to be successful, is to try to find tile that is similar enough that I can use it and not have the walls look too funky. Finding a tile that is the same size and thickness shouldn't be too difficult to find, the existing is a standard grade wall tile and the sizes/thickness on those is pretty much standard from make to make. The tile I need to replace is a matte finish, and just about everyone makes those. It's a creamy pinkish buffy color, and most manufacturers produce several varieties of that color range. But we'll have to see what I can find.
Like my dad always used to say - 'Not just a job, but an adventure' and he was saying that way before I ever saw it on an Airforce commercial.
Stay tuned .....
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
Sunday, May 4, 2008
Adventures in Tile!
I've decided to add a new feature to the tile blog - stories about intalling tile, working in construction, and other adventures that I have in the industry. I'd like to encourage people, especially young people trying to decide what kind of work they will do to support themselves in life, to consider a carreer in the construction industries. If you think about it, the construction industry is every bit as important as any of the industries that require a college degree. If you go through a formal apprenticeship, in many trades, you may very well come out with what I consider the equivalent of a college degree. I'll take my own trades and use them as an example. Yes I said trades. I used to be a member of the Bricklayers and Allied Crafts union, local #1, in Portland, Oregon. I did two apprenticeships through the BAC, one for tile setting and one for marble masonry. How long did that take? Pretty close to 10 years.
What's the difference betweem tile setting and marble masonry vs stone masonry? Tile setters work with, well, tile.... Tile can be ceramic, stone, agglomerate - also known as terrazzo tiles - terracotta, etc. Marble masons work with dimension stone - think big stone sometimes weighing hundreds of pounds - and quite often are found clading buildings in marble, granite, and other types of natural stone. Marble masons also differ from stone masons in that stone masons generally work setting stone in mortar, and the stone they set is usually broken into random sizes/shapes or may be cut into blocks and set in mortar. Stone masons built the great cathedrals around the world. Those buildings were actually constructed of stone where what marble masons do is more along the lines of cladding a building in a skin of stone. I have an idea that at one time, stone masons and marble masons were probably one and the same and that the two types of masons and masonry eventually differentiated into the general classifications we have today. Just as bricklayers usually work with different types of brick and block, but don't be surprised if you see a bricklayer doing marble masonry or stone masonry and visy-versy.... Confused yet???
Anyway, getting back to my original point, I think that if more people knew just what it takes to become a journeyman, or journeywoman, and then to become what my father used to refer to as a 'mechanic', perhaps they would have more respect for construction workers. After all, consider this - if someone doesn't know what they are doing they can cause serious damage to a home or other valuable property, they could even cause your death. That gives the construction worker a pretty weighty duty to perform their job properly. I used to do work for a general contractor who liked to cut corners. Now you might say, 'Hey, it's just tile. Let's save a few bucks and cut a corner here and there'. Well, let me tell you, my answer to him was always 'How much insurance did you say you had?'. If I, as a tile installer, install a shower pan poorly, on the second floor of a house worth $300,000, and that shower leaks and causes $20,000 worth of damage, then I didn't take my responsability as a journeywoman very seriously. I've harmed the client, my employer, the insurance company of both the home owner and the contractor I was working for, and the industry as a whole. If a building isn't framed in properly and there is a fire, if the roof collapses because the building wasn't built properly, perhaps you'll wind up killing a firefighter. My boy friend Harold, who is retired from the LA county fire department, saw that very thing happen to a firefighter in California. Killed him, burned him alive, all because a part of the building wasn't framed in properly and a roof that should have held the firefighter up couldn't.
Perhaps people don't know just what it takes to become a journeyman/woman in a given trade. When I did my apprenticeships this is what it took -
Tile Installer - 4,000 hours OJT plus 4 years of attending apprenticeship classes out at Mt. Hood Community College. Classes were held every other Saturday during the full school year. In addition to learning installation techniques, we learned blue print reading, estimating jobs, specialty materials and their applications - epoxy, furan, etc., and many other issues of importance to tile installation.
Marble Masonry - 4,000 OJT. At the time there weren't enough apprentices to hold classes, but it there had there would have been classes for marble mason apprentices similar to what the tile setters had.
And compared to what the plumbers and electicians have to go through, those are pretty easy and fast apprenticeships. So, in my own oppinion, construction workers who have gone through a formal apprenticeship, have gone through the equivelant of a college education.
In addition, construction in general, and in my most biased oppinion, the trowel trades - tile, stone, terrazzo, etc. - in particular can give a person interested in the field, a job that pays pretty well, and that can give you an immense sense of satisfaction. I can drive around Portland and point to numerous buildings that I and my family members have worked on over the last 100 years. That's a tradition
I'm very proud of.
Hopefully, with this part of the blog, I can give readers some insight into the construction industry, and inspire more young people to consider a career in construction.
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
What's the difference betweem tile setting and marble masonry vs stone masonry? Tile setters work with, well, tile.... Tile can be ceramic, stone, agglomerate - also known as terrazzo tiles - terracotta, etc. Marble masons work with dimension stone - think big stone sometimes weighing hundreds of pounds - and quite often are found clading buildings in marble, granite, and other types of natural stone. Marble masons also differ from stone masons in that stone masons generally work setting stone in mortar, and the stone they set is usually broken into random sizes/shapes or may be cut into blocks and set in mortar. Stone masons built the great cathedrals around the world. Those buildings were actually constructed of stone where what marble masons do is more along the lines of cladding a building in a skin of stone. I have an idea that at one time, stone masons and marble masons were probably one and the same and that the two types of masons and masonry eventually differentiated into the general classifications we have today. Just as bricklayers usually work with different types of brick and block, but don't be surprised if you see a bricklayer doing marble masonry or stone masonry and visy-versy.... Confused yet???
Anyway, getting back to my original point, I think that if more people knew just what it takes to become a journeyman, or journeywoman, and then to become what my father used to refer to as a 'mechanic', perhaps they would have more respect for construction workers. After all, consider this - if someone doesn't know what they are doing they can cause serious damage to a home or other valuable property, they could even cause your death. That gives the construction worker a pretty weighty duty to perform their job properly. I used to do work for a general contractor who liked to cut corners. Now you might say, 'Hey, it's just tile. Let's save a few bucks and cut a corner here and there'. Well, let me tell you, my answer to him was always 'How much insurance did you say you had?'. If I, as a tile installer, install a shower pan poorly, on the second floor of a house worth $300,000, and that shower leaks and causes $20,000 worth of damage, then I didn't take my responsability as a journeywoman very seriously. I've harmed the client, my employer, the insurance company of both the home owner and the contractor I was working for, and the industry as a whole. If a building isn't framed in properly and there is a fire, if the roof collapses because the building wasn't built properly, perhaps you'll wind up killing a firefighter. My boy friend Harold, who is retired from the LA county fire department, saw that very thing happen to a firefighter in California. Killed him, burned him alive, all because a part of the building wasn't framed in properly and a roof that should have held the firefighter up couldn't.
Perhaps people don't know just what it takes to become a journeyman/woman in a given trade. When I did my apprenticeships this is what it took -
Tile Installer - 4,000 hours OJT plus 4 years of attending apprenticeship classes out at Mt. Hood Community College. Classes were held every other Saturday during the full school year. In addition to learning installation techniques, we learned blue print reading, estimating jobs, specialty materials and their applications - epoxy, furan, etc., and many other issues of importance to tile installation.
Marble Masonry - 4,000 OJT. At the time there weren't enough apprentices to hold classes, but it there had there would have been classes for marble mason apprentices similar to what the tile setters had.
And compared to what the plumbers and electicians have to go through, those are pretty easy and fast apprenticeships. So, in my own oppinion, construction workers who have gone through a formal apprenticeship, have gone through the equivelant of a college education.
In addition, construction in general, and in my most biased oppinion, the trowel trades - tile, stone, terrazzo, etc. - in particular can give a person interested in the field, a job that pays pretty well, and that can give you an immense sense of satisfaction. I can drive around Portland and point to numerous buildings that I and my family members have worked on over the last 100 years. That's a tradition
I'm very proud of.
Hopefully, with this part of the blog, I can give readers some insight into the construction industry, and inspire more young people to consider a career in construction.
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Options for layout
Third question from Dave in Vancouver. All three of these questions were included in one email, I just thought it would be easier to put them in three different posts as they were in regards to three different topic areas that are very important to any tile/stone job.
Two thumbs up to Dave for such excelent questions.
Comment re: starting at the center of the room:
I favor a "line of sight" and start at the room entrance with a centered double line of tiles. I tie into the hallway or next room with a different pattern or mosaic so that there is a visual break between the two floors.
I agree. If I have a long open space and the door's offset I'll check to see if centering the layout on the door will put a long line of small cuts along the visible wall though. If the cuts are going to be under a toe kick, or if the walls step out or step back at various locations in the room, then I don't worry about what cuts will be along the walls. Using different types/patterns in different areas also helps to keep the floor surfaces visually interesting.
That's where you have an advantage if you're working on your own project, you get to pick. Working for homeowners and designers though, all I get to do is deal with what ever they choose for me to install, then step back when I'm done and enjoy the view....
Two thumbs up to Dave for such excelent questions.
Comment re: starting at the center of the room:
I favor a "line of sight" and start at the room entrance with a centered double line of tiles. I tie into the hallway or next room with a different pattern or mosaic so that there is a visual break between the two floors.
I agree. If I have a long open space and the door's offset I'll check to see if centering the layout on the door will put a long line of small cuts along the visible wall though. If the cuts are going to be under a toe kick, or if the walls step out or step back at various locations in the room, then I don't worry about what cuts will be along the walls. Using different types/patterns in different areas also helps to keep the floor surfaces visually interesting.
That's where you have an advantage if you're working on your own project, you get to pick. Working for homeowners and designers though, all I get to do is deal with what ever they choose for me to install, then step back when I'm done and enjoy the view....
Sealers and Grout
This one is from Dave in Vancouver also.
Any product that can "paint" over sealed grout? (or how to "un-seal")
I'm not sure if you're wanting to change the grout color or if you'd like to reseal, so I'll give you both answers.
If you're wanting to paint a stain over sealed grout, I wouldn't recomend that. There are some products that you can use to change the grout color. I've used a product in the past to put a color coat over existing grout. The product was a water based epoxy paint and worked well. The first thing you want to do is to strip the sealer off the surface of the grout. There are many stippers out there for this purpose. Custom Building Products, Miracle Products, Stone Tech and other companies all make strippers, and they are pretty reasonably priced, with easy to follow directions. One advantage of the strippers is that they commonly have surficants in them that will clean the grout and tile as well as removing any existing sealer from the surface. You just want to check the bottle and make sure that it says it will strip the sealer off the surface. Also, make sure that you use something approved for use on tile/stone and that doesn't contain any acids such as sulfamic, muriatic, etc..
One problem with putting anything over the top of sealed grout is that the purpose of the sealer - that is to fill pores in the surface and below - will prevent you from getting a good bond between the substance you're painting on the grout and the grout itself.
If you're going to reseal or put a colorant on the grout, you'll want to let the grout dry out for a day or so, then apply the colorant or sealer per instructions on the bottle.
The sealers I recomend for grout are Miracle Products 511 Impregnator, any of Stone Tech's penetrating sealers, and any of Custom's penetrating sealers. Note, if you're sealing or resealing grout or stone, be sure to use a penetrating sealer not an enhancer unless you want to deepen the color of the grout/stone. Enhancers essentially make the stone/grout look like it does when wet, color wise, and will probably add a sheen to the surface. Enhancers won't do anything on glazed tile except leave a residue that'll give you fits if you let it dry on the surface. Penetrating sealers will leave a residue on the surface as well but as long as you wipe the surface of a ceramic or stone tile with a shiny finish till it's dry, you won't have a problem with streaking or spotting.
Sealers and strippers can be bought at Oregon Tile and Marble and the big box stores. Stone Tech can be purchased at Intrepid.
Any product that can "paint" over sealed grout? (or how to "un-seal")
I'm not sure if you're wanting to change the grout color or if you'd like to reseal, so I'll give you both answers.
If you're wanting to paint a stain over sealed grout, I wouldn't recomend that. There are some products that you can use to change the grout color. I've used a product in the past to put a color coat over existing grout. The product was a water based epoxy paint and worked well. The first thing you want to do is to strip the sealer off the surface of the grout. There are many stippers out there for this purpose. Custom Building Products, Miracle Products, Stone Tech and other companies all make strippers, and they are pretty reasonably priced, with easy to follow directions. One advantage of the strippers is that they commonly have surficants in them that will clean the grout and tile as well as removing any existing sealer from the surface. You just want to check the bottle and make sure that it says it will strip the sealer off the surface. Also, make sure that you use something approved for use on tile/stone and that doesn't contain any acids such as sulfamic, muriatic, etc..
One problem with putting anything over the top of sealed grout is that the purpose of the sealer - that is to fill pores in the surface and below - will prevent you from getting a good bond between the substance you're painting on the grout and the grout itself.
If you're going to reseal or put a colorant on the grout, you'll want to let the grout dry out for a day or so, then apply the colorant or sealer per instructions on the bottle.
The sealers I recomend for grout are Miracle Products 511 Impregnator, any of Stone Tech's penetrating sealers, and any of Custom's penetrating sealers. Note, if you're sealing or resealing grout or stone, be sure to use a penetrating sealer not an enhancer unless you want to deepen the color of the grout/stone. Enhancers essentially make the stone/grout look like it does when wet, color wise, and will probably add a sheen to the surface. Enhancers won't do anything on glazed tile except leave a residue that'll give you fits if you let it dry on the surface. Penetrating sealers will leave a residue on the surface as well but as long as you wipe the surface of a ceramic or stone tile with a shiny finish till it's dry, you won't have a problem with streaking or spotting.
Sealers and strippers can be bought at Oregon Tile and Marble and the big box stores. Stone Tech can be purchased at Intrepid.
Choosing a tile saw
This question comes from Dave in Vancouver regarding choosing a tile saw.
Recommendation for a tile saw (doing about 600 sq ft). Have bought several Home Depot types $80-100 that couldn’t finish the job.
Target, MK, and Felker all make excelent saws but can be a bit pricey unless you're intending to do a lot of tile. I have a Felker Tile Master and those run around $900-$1100 new depending on what bells and wistles you get with them. You may be able to get a decent saw new for as low as $600 if you find one on sale at the regular tile suppliers like Oregon Tile and Marble, or Intrepid. What ever saw you get, you need, of course, to take into consideration what size of tile you will be working with. If you only plan to use smaller tiles up to 8 X 8 you could go with a small saw. MK makes one that actually uses a special angle grinder to run a 5-6 inch blade. The thing screams like a banshee, but it's a nice little saw, they're pretty sturdy little work horses, and I've seen them used on fairly good sized house jobs. I've even worked with a fellow who was cutting 16 X 16 travertine tiles on the thing, although that was pushing it a bit. Any of the standard size saws will cut up to 20 X 20 tiles even on the diagonal, although to split tiles that size on the diagonal you'd have to cut through half way then flip the tile around and cut the rest of the way. I believe that Dewalt makes a large saw with a deeper throat that will take a big tile like that without having to double cut, but I haven't used that one, so I can't say how good of a saw it is, although it's probably pretty good.
Sometimes you can find a good used saw, you could check Craig's List, or look in the classifieds of the major newspapers around town. If you're only going to do around 600 sq. ft., you might call Star Rentals or one of the other equipment rental companies to see if they have any to rent. I think Home Depot might rent wet saws too.
A note about used saws -
Always buy from a reputable dealer. Pawn shops sometimes have construction equipment, and the good ones will check to see if they're stolen. I had a brand new $1,200.00 Felker stolen off my truck - second day it was on the job. I think I had only cut about 20 feet of tile since I got it. That hurt. The saw probably went straight to a pawn shop or someone that had said they were looking for a used tile saw. If someone is selling their saw, ask them why they are getting rid of it. It may be someone going out of business, which is fine, but it may be stolen, or it may not work.
Try it before you buy it. Make sure it has a blade on it and check to make sure that the blade doesn't wobble - a little is acceptable, very much is no good though, this could be a sign of a bent arbor. Run a cut or two through it and use something like a porcelain, marble or granite tile. If you've been doing tile, you should have a few scrap pieces you could bring. If you use a piece of standard grade tile, like the 4 1/4 X 4 1/4 or 6 X 6 Dal tile that Home Depot sells, it won't be much of a test of the saw. If the person selling the saw won't let you try it, I wouldn't buy it. If they say that the pump is broken, that could be true, but you could use a water bottle or hose to get water to the blade. Water pumps are inexpensive to replace, motors and other parts are not. You don't need to cut 10 feet, just enough to see that the arbor is running true and the motor is in good shape and the belt is tight, etc. If you run a few cuts and the motor sounds good and the saw doesn't bog down and the blade cuts straight and true, even if the blade has a little wobble when it isn't cutting a tile, it may be that the blade is a bit warped. I have a blade that's like that and it still cuts fine. If the motor does bog down a bit, check the belt to see if it's nice and tight. I have to tighten the belt on my saw occasionally.
Recommendation for a tile saw (doing about 600 sq ft). Have bought several Home Depot types $80-100 that couldn’t finish the job.
Target, MK, and Felker all make excelent saws but can be a bit pricey unless you're intending to do a lot of tile. I have a Felker Tile Master and those run around $900-$1100 new depending on what bells and wistles you get with them. You may be able to get a decent saw new for as low as $600 if you find one on sale at the regular tile suppliers like Oregon Tile and Marble, or Intrepid. What ever saw you get, you need, of course, to take into consideration what size of tile you will be working with. If you only plan to use smaller tiles up to 8 X 8 you could go with a small saw. MK makes one that actually uses a special angle grinder to run a 5-6 inch blade. The thing screams like a banshee, but it's a nice little saw, they're pretty sturdy little work horses, and I've seen them used on fairly good sized house jobs. I've even worked with a fellow who was cutting 16 X 16 travertine tiles on the thing, although that was pushing it a bit. Any of the standard size saws will cut up to 20 X 20 tiles even on the diagonal, although to split tiles that size on the diagonal you'd have to cut through half way then flip the tile around and cut the rest of the way. I believe that Dewalt makes a large saw with a deeper throat that will take a big tile like that without having to double cut, but I haven't used that one, so I can't say how good of a saw it is, although it's probably pretty good.
Sometimes you can find a good used saw, you could check Craig's List, or look in the classifieds of the major newspapers around town. If you're only going to do around 600 sq. ft., you might call Star Rentals or one of the other equipment rental companies to see if they have any to rent. I think Home Depot might rent wet saws too.
A note about used saws -
Always buy from a reputable dealer. Pawn shops sometimes have construction equipment, and the good ones will check to see if they're stolen. I had a brand new $1,200.00 Felker stolen off my truck - second day it was on the job. I think I had only cut about 20 feet of tile since I got it. That hurt. The saw probably went straight to a pawn shop or someone that had said they were looking for a used tile saw. If someone is selling their saw, ask them why they are getting rid of it. It may be someone going out of business, which is fine, but it may be stolen, or it may not work.
Try it before you buy it. Make sure it has a blade on it and check to make sure that the blade doesn't wobble - a little is acceptable, very much is no good though, this could be a sign of a bent arbor. Run a cut or two through it and use something like a porcelain, marble or granite tile. If you've been doing tile, you should have a few scrap pieces you could bring. If you use a piece of standard grade tile, like the 4 1/4 X 4 1/4 or 6 X 6 Dal tile that Home Depot sells, it won't be much of a test of the saw. If the person selling the saw won't let you try it, I wouldn't buy it. If they say that the pump is broken, that could be true, but you could use a water bottle or hose to get water to the blade. Water pumps are inexpensive to replace, motors and other parts are not. You don't need to cut 10 feet, just enough to see that the arbor is running true and the motor is in good shape and the belt is tight, etc. If you run a few cuts and the motor sounds good and the saw doesn't bog down and the blade cuts straight and true, even if the blade has a little wobble when it isn't cutting a tile, it may be that the blade is a bit warped. I have a blade that's like that and it still cuts fine. If the motor does bog down a bit, check the belt to see if it's nice and tight. I have to tighten the belt on my saw occasionally.
Look, a tile blog!
I've been answering questions sent to me by people doing tile on their own and having a fine time indeed. I've been getting such good questions from people that I decided to start a blog where people can comment on questions and answers.
My phylosophy has always been that the more people you can get input from, the more you can learn. Everyone has different experience and different points of view and no one knows it all. I've been doing this since 1984 and I don't know it all. I try to learn something new every day and with everyone's help we can all learn from each other.
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
My phylosophy has always been that the more people you can get input from, the more you can learn. Everyone has different experience and different points of view and no one knows it all. I've been doing this since 1984 and I don't know it all. I try to learn something new every day and with everyone's help we can all learn from each other.
Cheers,
Joanne Rigutto
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
